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Strange(r) Coordinates: Rameez Tase
Strange(r) Coordinates is back. This time, we’re chatting with Rameez Tase, co-founder and president of our client Antenna, about the long love affair between brands, media, and entertainment.
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territorial is an advertising agency that helps brands find their place in the world. To see our work and learn more about what we do, visit weareterritorial.com and follow us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/weareterritorial
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Show art & design by Chris Allen
Editing by Steph George
Marketing by Billy Silverman
Episode music by Blue Dot Sessions
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Follow territorial on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/weareterritorial
Follow Rameez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rtase
Subscribe to our mailing list: https://forms.gle/YH9y99y1d9ZVKNm28
Transcript
Hello, everyone, And welcome to Strange Coordinates, a show where
Speaker:we use brands as compass points to lead us to fascinating stories.
Speaker:I'm Topher Burns.
Speaker:And I am Robert Balog.
Speaker:Topher and I started an ad agency
Speaker:called Territorial to help brands find their
Speaker:place in the world.
Speaker:And shocker, we're not the only people in the world who love brands.
Speaker:So on stranger coordinates, that's strange with an R in parentheses, clever.
Speaker:We focus on a specific theme and bring a traveling companion
Speaker:along with us on the journey.
Speaker:the
Speaker:theme for our discussion today is going to be the long love affair between
Speaker:brands and media and entertainment, which was drawn out from our first
Speaker:episode, Sweet Satisfaction, in which, as many of you will probably recall, Mr.
Speaker:Goodbar made a notable appearance in a
Speaker:touchstone of 70s disco culture.
Speaker:I mean,
Speaker:Touchstone, it was, uh,
Speaker:it was sort of in a battle, an epic battle with the behemoth of 70s
Speaker:disco culture, Saturday Night Fever.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I would say it went down in round two.
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:But you know, the the candy bar had the the last laugh because it's
Speaker:That's true.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:Okay, so we're not going to explore this idea alone joining our expedition
Speaker:today is the co founder and president of antenna An analytics company
Speaker:focused on the subscription economy.
Speaker:And if you've seen an article talking about churn rates and streaming, for
Speaker:example, it probably quotes their data.
Speaker:Prior to starting antenna five years ago, he led growth in analytics
Speaker:at a couple of small digital media startups like Axios and
Speaker:Mike, and he's still grateful to have escaped the eye of Soran,
Speaker:otherwise known as investment banking.
Speaker:10 years ago, please welcome to the podcast for me
Speaker:is Taze.
Speaker:nice to meet you two and having listened to the first episode about mr.
Speaker:Good bar Uh, I learned a lot about chocolate I learned a lot about weird, uh,
Speaker:weird, weird disco culture, finding Mr.
Speaker:Goodbar, looking for Mr.
Speaker:Goodbar, Topher.
Speaker:I did not watch the movie, but what you didn't,
Speaker:you didn't tell me is,
Speaker:uh, it stars Diane Keaton.
Speaker:So this was like a major, major,
Speaker:movie.
Speaker:Powerhouse cast.
Speaker:Yeah, this wasn't an indie.
Speaker:It also
Speaker:wasn't sort of the the confectionery inspired, uh,
Speaker:film that maybe you would have
Speaker:hoped based on the on the title.
Speaker:It was pretty dark.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I think, I think we can call it a coincidence.
Speaker:I would not do a sort of double header of like, Willy Wonka and then looking for Mr.
Speaker:Goodbar.
Speaker:I think it might be quite a disappointing night
Speaker:for the family.
Speaker:Depends where you want it to go.
Speaker:As long as
Speaker:There were a couple, there were a couple of disappointed families
Speaker:back in, uh, you know, the eighties or nineties or seventies.
Speaker:That's true.
Speaker:That's true.
Speaker:So we had the great pleasure of working with you early days
Speaker:of territorial on some work with antenna.
Speaker:And let me correct me if this is an
Speaker:unfair assessment.
Speaker:Did you start off as maybe
Speaker:something of a brand skeptic in terms of
Speaker:the power that a brand has can can play in a company?
Speaker:Or am I just kind of rewriting history in my mind?
Speaker:I think that's true.
Speaker:I think, I think you, uh, you changed my mind
Speaker:Well, I
Speaker:changed over time.
Speaker:that's fantastic.
Speaker:recording this.
Speaker:Noted.
Speaker:Yeah, I mean, I think one of the one of
Speaker:the great.
Speaker:uh, great.
Speaker:you know, benefits of doing this job is is working really
Speaker:closely with with people who have
Speaker:such a deep stake in the company
Speaker:and who, um, you know, maybe have very,
Speaker:very different backgrounds than us.
Speaker:And so I think,
Speaker:you know, I remember that process being rewarding on our side as well,
Speaker:because what we took from you and from our client partners in that regard was
Speaker:like, you know, a real rigor for for being thoughtful about how we can help a
Speaker:fledgling business, you know, do its best and grow in the world.
Speaker:So, uh, Not to start off on a sentimental note, but that
Speaker:was a really great time for us
Speaker:to get involved with y'all,
Speaker:so.
Speaker:Mm
Speaker:uh, fast forward several years and, uh, you can ask anyone, but the brand
Speaker:is extremely strong and we punch way above our weight because of the
Speaker:consistency and everything of the brand.
Speaker:And, you know, I, I don't think you could call it a skeptical view.
Speaker:I think I sort of had the view that like any brand can be a good brand as long as
Speaker:the product underlying it is, is good.
Speaker:And so in that regard, you know, one,
Speaker:one corollary there is like, well, then does the brand branding part
Speaker:matter if, if it's really undergirded by a product, I think where I've
Speaker:gotten to since then that, yeah, to an extent, any brand can be a good brand.
Speaker:I think what matters.
Speaker:is standing for something and for someone consistently.
Speaker:hmm.
Speaker:And I think what, uh, you all set Antenna up to do really well is to stand
Speaker:for a level of quality and diligence and, and, uh, production value and
Speaker:for a specific group of consumers or audience, uh, in a very consistent way.
Speaker:And so there's probably other ways to do that, but we picked one really strong way.
Speaker:And so I think in that sense, the brand really, really matters.
Speaker:Mm
Speaker:yeah.
Speaker:I actually also want to call out that
Speaker:you framed, uh, use a term I'd never heard before, which
Speaker:is anti brand, which is super fascinating to me.
Speaker:Like, like, and it's like Antibra, like it's just very,
Speaker:very, it's a bunch of
Speaker:like,
Speaker:you know, uh, fascists or anti fascists.
Speaker:I want the coin Antibra.
Speaker:Yeah, I'd join.
Speaker:Yeah, totally.
Speaker:Um, as long as we're defending brands, I guess?
Speaker:Are we prosecuting brands?
Speaker:No, maybe I wouldn't join.
Speaker:I take it back,
Speaker:I think, yeah, I think you would not
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:We, we probably lose our,
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:we probably lose our business.
Speaker:yeah, okay, nevermind.
Speaker:Terrible idea.
Speaker:Um, I'm, I'm curious
Speaker:Again doesn't have as good of a ring to it.
Speaker:The bug got, sorry,
Speaker:know, now that you mentioned it, that was, yeah, that was kind of
Speaker:Ogilvy's, it was very similar to Ogilvy's mantra for a while, which was
Speaker:make brands matter.
Speaker:And it's like, I never really put those
Speaker:together.
Speaker:Uh, yeah, but make brands great again, for sure.
Speaker:. Um, I,
Speaker:known Confessions of an Advertising Man was just
Speaker:Totally.
Speaker:yeah, It was, it was definitely
Speaker:a screed, uh, an anti capitalist screed in, in, uh, in hiding.
Speaker:so Rumi's sticking with today's theme.
Speaker:you know, we, we talked about kind of like the love affair between
Speaker:brands and entertainment and media.
Speaker:Nothing brings brands and entertainment together quite like the world of sports.
Speaker:You have mentioned to us before when we were chatting about what we might want
Speaker:to talk about today that you feel like sports is underrated IP for brands.
Speaker:I would love for you to scratch that itch and tell us a little
Speaker:bit more about what you see there.
Speaker:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:We're seeing that play out in the world of streaming, which
Speaker:I am immersed in at Antenna.
Speaker:Uh, sports, you know, are this last bastion of everyone is
Speaker:watching at the same time.
Speaker:And so there are incredible kind of cultural moments.
Speaker:We're talking about the Olympics before we started recording around sports.
Speaker:And even 10 years ago, there were incredible cultural
Speaker:moments around a lot of things.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And slowly but surely all of those things have kind of gone on demand or ad hoc,
Speaker:which is great for a lot of reasons, but it's not great for one reason, which is
Speaker:scaled advertising or brand building.
Speaker:If you're trying to get a message across to the entire world or a huge swath of
Speaker:the world, at one time so that it kind of seeps into the cultural zeitgeist.
Speaker:Where do you do it now?
Speaker:You can't really do it at the movies.
Speaker:You can't even really do it in music, uh, you know, very often
Speaker:because everyone's listening to a different thing at a different time.
Speaker:Uh, You can still do it at sports, sports events.
Speaker:And so I think one of the big things that we've seen with, uh, the NBA rates just
Speaker:got traded, uh, earlier this month, one of the big things we've seen with sports
Speaker:valuations and the fact that even as this cable bundle is kind of crumbling and, uh,
Speaker:subscribers have gone from 80 million to 50 million in the last couple of years,
Speaker:sports are still more valuable than ever.
Speaker:The sports bubble never existed or it certainly hasn't popped yet.
Speaker:The teams are more valuable than ever.
Speaker:And I think you can do tons and tons of analysis around it, but there's sort
Speaker:of like one core fundamental underlying reason, which is that they are the only
Speaker:thing that creates a cultural moment.
Speaker:And in a
Speaker:capitalist society, what goes hand in hand with
Speaker:a cultural moment for a huge amount of people Brand advertising.
Speaker:And so I think there's something incredibly powerful there that
Speaker:actually is at the heart of, like you said, the love affair between brands And
Speaker:entertainment, but it's having this huge
Speaker:kind of web of second order consequences, but I think it actually
Speaker:comes down to that one core thing.
Speaker:It's interesting because even outside of the advertising space, when I
Speaker:started thinking about, you know, you're mentioning these like massive
Speaker:moments, those are moments that brands have not just tried to pay
Speaker:to be a part of, uh, in the fairway or above the boardway, but also try
Speaker:to kind of incept themselves into.
Speaker:And it makes me think a lot of the Peyton Manning Super Bowl where he
Speaker:won and he was staring down the barrel of retirement and therefore a very
Speaker:different income stream ahead of him.
Speaker:And they asked him, what he was gonna do next and he said the term Budweiser
Speaker:like three times kind of unprompted like they're like how you feeling he's like
Speaker:i'm really looking forward to sitting down with a Budweiser you know and he's
Speaker:like Just get, get in a Budweiser and then once I have that Budweiser, you know,
Speaker:I'll, I'll, I'll feel, you know, it's just like really sad to watch, but it worked.
Speaker:You know, like the, the next step from that was him doing all the commercials
Speaker:and you know, all that type of stuff.
Speaker:It really, it reminded me a lot of kind of like how, how brands try and get
Speaker:involved in it in all different ways.
Speaker:well, let me give you the good, uh, tasteful version
Speaker:of Peyton Manning Budweiser.
Speaker:I think it's Red Bull and specifically Red Bull Media House.
Speaker:And I think, you know, if you, if you go back to the founder of Red Bull is
Speaker:this crazy, crazy guy, uh, and I've actually spoken to people at Red Bull
Speaker:Media House and, I've asked them, like, what's the thing, you know, what's
Speaker:the, like, what is the magic here?
Speaker:And multiple people that I've spoken to there have basically both said the same
Speaker:thing, which is that, like, you gotta own.
Speaker:The entire stack of content like from from end to end and so what does
Speaker:that actually look like in practice?
Speaker:That looks like they sponsor the athletes.
Speaker:They have red bull tv.
Speaker:They actually even like put on some of the sports So when you're
Speaker:thinking about skate and and other kind of quote unquote extreme sports,
Speaker:they're actually hosting the events.
Speaker:So the league You know, belongs to Red Bull.
Speaker:And so in perfection, it's a brand.
Speaker:It's also an energy drink, kind of like actually, uh, kind of a
Speaker:weird brand when you think about it without your association that
Speaker:is created by Red Bull Media House.
Speaker:But when you, when you actually bring that association in, it's like, awesome.
Speaker:It's cool.
Speaker:all right, so we're warmed up, we're thinking
Speaker:brands, um, it's time for us to go
Speaker:to one of our favorite segments.
Speaker:It's called Off Brand.
Speaker:Um, I'm going to ask you three brand related questions,
Speaker:uh, that are connected to our theme.
Speaker:Um, Robert doesn't know The answers either, um, but Ramiz, you're
Speaker:going to be in charge of kind of like answering these questions.
Speaker:You have to go on record
Speaker:with, uh, with
Speaker:what you think the answer is.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:Just to be clear, there are no stakes here.
Speaker:Robert's really worried about
Speaker:People have been canceled.
Speaker:People
Speaker:The stakes could not be lower.
Speaker:I, always think it's funny because Robert's always like, hey,
Speaker:there's nothing on the line here.
Speaker:And it's like, yeah, what?
Speaker:I'm just always like, what do you think?
Speaker:He thinks somebody's like at the front
Speaker:door being like, boo.
Speaker:No, because like, if you just have like, a personality where you
Speaker:hear the word test or quiz and all of a sudden you tense up because,
Speaker:That's just ingrained in you for forever.
Speaker:Then I just want to put people at ease that this is not one of those instances in
Speaker:knows my South Asian parents have inflicted
Speaker:I'm just saying.
Speaker:Yeah, I'm just saying.
Speaker:that.
Speaker:I feel that every time I see quiz, I'm like, I'm going to nail this.
Speaker:I'm like, no, it doesn't matter.
Speaker:It does not matter.
Speaker:I do have a little bit of like, pop quiz.
Speaker:That sounds fun.
Speaker:Like, uh,
Speaker:and I work so well together.
Speaker:Cause, yeah, I guess I'm a psycho.
Speaker:Okay, uh, Question one.
Speaker:In the no stakes, no risk, no punishment meted out quizzes
Speaker:that we're doing right now.
Speaker:Uh, what 1982 summer blockbuster featured one of the most widely
Speaker:noted and successful examples of film product placement in memory,
Speaker:boosting sales of Hershey's Reese's Pieces by
Speaker:more than 85 percent in the weeks after the film's release?
Speaker:1982.
Speaker:82 summer blockbuster,
Speaker:successful product placement included Hershey's Reese's pieces.
Speaker:This is definitely a sort of hint.
Speaker:situation, Topher, I think, If
Speaker:If you, if you're dialed in, do you want to, do you want to float
Speaker:a little hint here or do you
Speaker:do
Speaker:um, there was
Speaker:other notable products in this film were BMX bikes,
Speaker:the moon, um, um, what else was in that?
Speaker:Uh, I'll, I'll give one more
Speaker:hint.
Speaker:There's a line and the line.
Speaker:that placed this product was Reese's Pieces
Speaker:et
Speaker:the one.
Speaker:that, that was too good of a hint too.
Speaker:Too.
Speaker:Too easy.
Speaker:I mean, that movie I still to this day crave Reese's Pieces because of that film.
Speaker:I
Speaker:Reese's probably didn't even pay for that.
Speaker:This was like the good old days of capitalism.
Speaker:When
Speaker:did.
Speaker:Well, they, they, they agreed to collaborate.
Speaker:Um, so, what happened is that actually, um, Mars missed out
Speaker:on having M& M's in the film.
Speaker:Um, and so, Spielberg went to Mars and was like, yo, I'm going to do this fun
Speaker:coming of age thing about this alien.
Speaker:And they were like, miss me with that.
Speaker:Uh, and so they said, no, you
Speaker:cannot use
Speaker:our
Speaker:into micro influencers only.
Speaker:right, right, right.
Speaker:Um, and so, uh, Reese's pieces is like, sure.
Speaker:And let's do some co brand, um, we'll like
Speaker:promote.
Speaker:Um, so there's like co branded merch.
Speaker:Um, um, And,
Speaker:uh, it was a wild, wild success, um, And, M& M's missed out on all of it.
Speaker:So M& M's was like, Aliens, that's too weird.
Speaker:We're over here sexualizing a piece of candy by putting legs and stockings on it.
Speaker:Maybe that's what drove them there.
Speaker:They're like, we gotta take more risks.
Speaker:Remember that Reese's Pieces disaster?
Speaker:that's right.
Speaker:Put her in some, put her in some pumps.
Speaker:Oh, that's, that's a good one.
Speaker:That's,
Speaker:I wish I was in that meeting.
Speaker:That sounds fun.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Question two.
Speaker:Uh, this is gonna be, you're gonna get a
Speaker:multiple choice,
Speaker:Oh, these are good These are good.
Speaker:decision for this one While technically the honor might go to
Speaker:Tetris, depending on how you slice it, there's a case to be made that
Speaker:Minecraft is the most popular game of
Speaker:all
Speaker:time.
Speaker:Since it's an open world game, has a massive and young fan base,
Speaker:it's fertile ground for brand
Speaker:collaborations.
Speaker:Which of these three brand collaborations did I make up?
Speaker:Ooh.
Speaker:Which is not correct.
Speaker:You're asking which one is not real.
Speaker:There are two that are real, and then there's one that's not.
Speaker:And you
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Thank
Speaker:that I made up.
Speaker:Uh, A.
Speaker:Minecraft and Nerf create a downloadable Nerf Zone where you
Speaker:can level up your weapons and hit an obstacle course to battle your
Speaker:friends.
Speaker:B.
Speaker:Minecraft and Burberry design a romantic series of landscapes entitled
Speaker:Freedom to Go Beyond that are dotted with Burberry plaid hot air balloons.
Speaker:C.
Speaker:Minecraft and Andrew W.
Speaker:K.
Speaker:make a Minecraft resurrected version of his long shuttered New York nightlife
Speaker:venue Santos Party House where players can join in Crazy Karaoke,
Speaker:both Ks, Crazy Karaoke contest.
Speaker:A.
Speaker:Minecraft and Nerf.
Speaker:B.
Speaker:Minecraft and Burberry.
Speaker:Or C.
Speaker:Minecraft and Andrew WK.
Speaker:I'm going to say that, uh, it's definitely not Burberry because I feel like the
Speaker:Burberry CMO was like pretty legendary.
Speaker:So I'm going to, I'm going to eliminate Burberry.
Speaker:So it's between Andrew WK and Nerf.
Speaker:okay,
Speaker:I feel like, I'm going to fall into the trap you want me to fall into because
Speaker:a Minecraft Nerf gun seems like a
Speaker:great idea that they should do.
Speaker:So I would say Andrew WK is the non
Speaker:partnership.
Speaker:But I know I'm wrong because I fell into the
Speaker:you are not wrong, you are correct.
Speaker:Oh man, okay, I was like, this sounds awesome.
Speaker:So there are, there are
Speaker:Minecraft Nerf guns, and there is a Minecraft Burberry.
Speaker:I don't know if they made Minecraft
Speaker:nerf guns.
Speaker:They made a nerf zone in Minecraft where you could shoot
Speaker:Minecraft nerf darts at other
Speaker:That's pretty
Speaker:running around in there.
Speaker:The Burberry one, pretty much all the coverage of it was like, what?
Speaker:Uh, and I think
Speaker:it kind of is like
Speaker:I think it's the type of thing that was made
Speaker:for fans of Burberry, not for fans of Minecraft.
Speaker:So it's for all the people who are like, Oh, I love Burberry.
Speaker:And like, wow, they're doing such innovative stuff.
Speaker:Um, the people who love Minecraft for like, you don't know what Minecraft is, do
Speaker:you?
Speaker:And they were like, we don't care.
Speaker:You don't have any money anyways.
Speaker:But like, in the context of Minecraft, to call something the
Speaker:freedom to go beyond
Speaker:seems a bit redundant, right?
Speaker:Like the entire thing, the whole environment is about
Speaker:the freedom to go beyond.
Speaker:Just like, do whatever you
Speaker:want in there.
Speaker:That seems flat.
Speaker:The, uh, the Burberry plaid, uh, hot air balloons That were pretty cute.
Speaker:That is
Speaker:they.
Speaker:They make for a cute little screenshot.
Speaker:I just want to point out, Topher, that I'm around the corner from Santos, what
Speaker:formerly Santos Party House, right now.
Speaker:It's just
Speaker:That place is a fun spot.
Speaker:I would, uh, you know, maybe you have to go into Minecraft
Speaker:and make it
Speaker:yourself.
Speaker:Now it's kind of like, this is a, this is a mission for you.
Speaker:But, see, this, that was entirely plausible because Andrew W.
Speaker:K.
Speaker:also did a kid's show for a while.
Speaker:I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:He's, he's prolific.
Speaker:He's a, he's a cultural icon, a
Speaker:national
Speaker:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker:this is me trying to manifest more
Speaker:Andrew WK into the
Speaker:Yeah, I think he's coming back.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Question three.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Sometimes media inspires brands rather than the other way around.
Speaker:In season 12, episode 15 of The Simpsons, entitled Hungry Hungry Homer, Mr.
Speaker:Burns is caught trying to relocate Springfield's baseball team,
Speaker:the Isotopes, to a new city.
Speaker:In response to that episode, that actual city later changed
Speaker:the name of their minor league
Speaker:farm team to the Isotopes.
Speaker:The Simpsons.
Speaker:What city was it?
Speaker:I I truly have no idea, and there are too many options
Speaker:for cities for me, for me to narrow it
Speaker:down.
Speaker:You're starting with a subset of cities.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I like the three options better.
Speaker:Robert, are you a big Simpsons fanatic?
Speaker:Do you know this one off the
Speaker:I don't know this one.
Speaker:No, I don't know this one.
Speaker:I've actually not been
Speaker:a Simpsons fanatic.
Speaker:There is, there is a little bit of a hint in the, the name the isotopes,
Speaker:which was named, uh, in Simpsons because the topes, you know, for,
Speaker:Roswell is a very good guess.
Speaker:You are very close.
Speaker:The, the answer is Uh, yes, and thematically close.
Speaker:I don't know.
Speaker:What's the answer?
Speaker:Albuquerque.
Speaker:Is Albuquerque very close to Roswell?
Speaker:It's obviously about the New Mexico.
Speaker:Yeah, you know, it's closer than most things to Roswell.
Speaker:There's nothing that's really close to Roswell.
Speaker:Um, the, so the name is fitting because New Mexico has a history
Speaker:of kind of nuclear, starting with the Manhattan Project, obviously.
Speaker:but I have to say, as being somebody who was raised in Albuquerque, uh, the, I
Speaker:really missed, uh, the Albuquerque dukes.
Speaker:They
Speaker:had a really cute, sort of like, old school, uh, cartoon duke.
Speaker:Um, but I also understand
Speaker:that maybe, The, the connotations of the conquistadors
Speaker:might've been something that the city was eager to walk away from.
Speaker:So there were, there were pressures on both sides that I can understand.
Speaker:Have they since changed their name from the isotopes, or
Speaker:are they still off the top?
Speaker:Still the topes.
Speaker:Go
Speaker:Leaning into
Speaker:what are we, are we, uh, double a, triple a What
Speaker:into their farm team for the LA Dodgers.
Speaker:I
Speaker:How good is their merch?
Speaker:They must have cool merch.
Speaker:Uh, the Topes merch is kinda corny.
Speaker:The Dukes merch, in my opinion, is really cool.
Speaker:Uh, you can still get, like, a throwback Dukes, uh, credit card.
Speaker:One of my friends has that, and I was like, Whoa, where'd
Speaker:you get that dank Dukes card?
Speaker:uh, I'll, I'll, I'll post some later in
Speaker:the show notes just so people can get a
Speaker:sense of the graphic universe.
Speaker:Uh, I can, I can sing the song like, those dukes are coming
Speaker:out, coming out swinging, hustling all the way.
Speaker:So I've even got all the
Speaker:like, yeah, the local
Speaker:sort of like cartoon afternoon commercials, jingles in my head.
Speaker:uh, and I say this as somebody who grew up in outside of Washington
Speaker:DC in the suburbs.
Speaker:So this is no shade, but I feel like it's a very kind of like
Speaker:second tier city thing to be really connected to your minor
Speaker:league team, to have like a, a,
Speaker:vibe with that.
Speaker:I kind of wish that we had had
Speaker:I, miss that.
Speaker:yeah, I didn't, we, we, when I was
Speaker:in outside DC, the senators had were long gone and
Speaker:Robert, where did you grow up?
Speaker:I didn't even even
Speaker:In, uh, Fairfax, Virginia or Chantilly,
Speaker:Virginia.
Speaker:Actually.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we didn't have anything.
Speaker:We heard about the senators and we were waiting for the
Speaker:nationals to show up.
Speaker:And so there was nothing really to be aligned to except for the
Speaker:Orioles, which never felt right.
Speaker:Cause like Baltimore was two hours away.
Speaker:So that didn't make any sense.
Speaker:I would love a minor league situation.
Speaker:there's this whole new.
Speaker:There's this whole new world
Speaker:of kind of like sub minor league baseball, like summer
Speaker:league stuff.
Speaker:Uh, Portland has an incredible example there, the Portland Pickles.
Speaker:mascot is Dylan Pickle.
Speaker:Uh, and the games are very low stakes.
Speaker:Uh, when the Pickles hit, they're like, Like make a run.
Speaker:Then the announcer gets on and he puts on the Venga boys and he just goes the
Speaker:pickles, pickles, pickles, the pickles,
Speaker:pickles, pickles.
Speaker:That's
Speaker:everybody's sort of
Speaker:like low key wasted or high, but it's
Speaker:just kinda like chill.
Speaker:Nobody's trying to get in a fight.
Speaker:There's no stakes on it.
Speaker:Uh, it's just
Speaker:I love
Speaker:that.
Speaker:vibe.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Recommended their merch is sick too.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Topher has shown me their merch.
Speaker:It's pretty dope.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I think I'm more into the Portland Pickles merch than the Dukes merch if
Speaker:you are choosing between the two to send me something.
Speaker:Okay, so now,
Speaker:Noted
Speaker:I love this.
Speaker:Rameez has started a tradition on Stranger Coordinates where we send merch.
Speaker:to
Speaker:I like it, I like
Speaker:minor league
Speaker:baseball
Speaker:Yes,
Speaker:absolutely.
Speaker:So, um, What we'd like to do at the end is, you know, we've been
Speaker:kind of leading the way here, but,
Speaker:um, we, at
Speaker:this point in the expedition, like to kind of turn it over, to you
Speaker:and do what we call an exercise.
Speaker:Do an exercise we call omnipotent brand manager.
Speaker:So imagine in your mind, this is a thought experiment.
Speaker:You've been promoted to the most powerful brand manager in history.
Speaker:So you've been demoted from founder and CEO to brand manager,
Speaker:but you're promoted the most powerful brand manager in history.
Speaker:And you have the span of a single project to do anything you want.
Speaker:You can do anything.
Speaker:Uh, you can create, you can change the trajectory of a brand.
Speaker:You can do a cool event.
Speaker:What brand would you want to work with for their project?
Speaker:And what would you
Speaker:do?
Speaker:What, what is
Speaker:screw, what is calling out
Speaker:to you in terms of a thing you want to get your
Speaker:hands on?
Speaker:Um, Oh,
Speaker:brand is, is actually fascinating.
Speaker:It's got $2 billion of revenue, 38 million members.
Speaker:It's been around for 70 years.
Speaker:Um, and so it's, it's actually much more successful, uh, by all measures, basically
Speaker:than, uh, all of the cool brands.
Speaker:But I do not think it's considered a cool brand.
Speaker:Uh, this, this brand is the A A RP that is the American
Speaker:Association of Retired Persons.
Speaker:I don't know its status,
Speaker:uh, as a C corp or a not for profit exactly, but I do know
Speaker:that it, uh, just prints money.
Speaker:And, uh, there's one problem, which is, uh, one of the A's stands for
Speaker:American, but my project would be to take this brand global.
Speaker:Oh, interesting.
Speaker:Yeah, that's so smart.
Speaker:I think that the fascinating part about this brand is if you think about like
Speaker:all of these media companies, they want to just reach everyone and they just
Speaker:kind of aren't.
Speaker:You know, if you're trying to be something to everyone, you're kind of nothing
Speaker:to no one, so to speak, uh, where we started with the antenna brand is you
Speaker:really have to mean something specific
Speaker:Mm
Speaker:a specific group of people.
Speaker:You got to get both of those things right.
Speaker:And so if you're trying to build a brand for everyone, it tends not to work.
Speaker:Uh.
Speaker:And if you're trying to build the everything brand for, for
Speaker:someone, it also tends not to work.
Speaker:What the AARP has done really, really well is that they've picked
Speaker:a group and they basically say,
Speaker:you know, you're not allowed to be in this club if you're not in that group.
Speaker:And then they deliver only products and services that the people in that
Speaker:group would really, really want.
Speaker:Mm hmm.
Speaker:Uh, whether that's, insurance or healthcare advice, uh, or, or anything
Speaker:that a retired person would really need, uh, they're there for you.
Speaker:And the kicker is that they have this incredible media front
Speaker:end top of funnel to do it.
Speaker:So, like, if you're turning 65, you are going to get AARP magazines, you're
Speaker:going to get mailers, you're going to get targeted with digital content.
Speaker:And it's going to be highly relevant to you, because chances are you're thinking
Speaker:about retirement, you're thinking about Medicare, you're thinking about downsizing
Speaker:your home, uh, you're thinking about paying for your kid's college, uh, and
Speaker:so it's highly relevant at that time.
Speaker:And that content serves as an incredible top of funnel.
Speaker:To maybe start a banking relationship or a product relationship that's
Speaker:obviously way more valuable, uh, to the, to the AARP than, than just a reader.
Speaker:And they did this one thing that's actually something that,
Speaker:you know, traditionally people associate with the internet.
Speaker:Which is basically there's riches and niches, right?
Speaker:Like there's, uh, now a way to reach everyone globally in a given niche.
Speaker:And so if, you know, in the magazine culture days, uh, you were trying
Speaker:to do a, you know, skate culture magazine, like, like vice or something.
Speaker:Well, it was pretty hard.
Speaker:Like you'd have to go get, you know, the copy of the magazine to everyone.
Speaker:And so you're kind of limited to maybe like Brooklyn or maybe New York.
Speaker:Uh, well, you know, with the internet.
Speaker:Now, everyone in that same scape culture kind of demographic
Speaker:psychographic is reachable without needing to ship anything anywhere.
Speaker:Same thing with retired people, right?
Speaker:They all kind of want the same things.
Speaker:They all are reachable now, and there are a ton of them.
Speaker:I don't know if you've heard about the demographics of Western countries, but
Speaker:there are a ton of retired people that are just getting to retirement age,
Speaker:which have incredible amounts of money.
Speaker:And are just looking to spend it on their passions, their kids, etc.
Speaker:And so I feel like right now, building on this existing organization's strengths,
Speaker:and the big macro kind of shift to an aging demographic in Western cultures,
Speaker:you could basically just make this play to capture all retired peoples, and then
Speaker:you could sell them incredible things.
Speaker:Vacation homes, retirement locations in lower tax places, uh, communities,
Speaker:like, you know, residential, like, versions of WeWork for people
Speaker:their age, all kinds of things.
Speaker:I think you could make an absolute killing here.
Speaker:The problem is that it is the American Association of Retired Persons,
Speaker:and so you would need a rebrand.
Speaker:I don't know what you would call it.
Speaker:I don't know what you would call it, though.
Speaker:I think we would, uh, we would need to brainstorm.
Speaker:I don't think GARP is the winning brand.
Speaker:I was just thinking GARP, and I was like, don't say that GARP,
Speaker:Well, you know, they pronounce
Speaker:it ARP.
Speaker:Do they?
Speaker:for a while was, you don't
Speaker:know ARP, I believe.
Speaker:Uh, and so, they were leaning into
Speaker:ARP, but I do not think they should lean into GARP.
Speaker:I think they should lean into the product direction of garb, just not the
Speaker:brand.
Speaker:Uh, so that is the brand
Speaker:That's fascinating.
Speaker:brand manager.
Speaker:That's super smart.
Speaker:I actually, so, beyond the magazine, What, what, because you're
Speaker:right.
Speaker:they?
Speaker:do have
Speaker:this
Speaker:rapt audience.
Speaker:What type of media
Speaker:do they
Speaker:serve and control?
Speaker:Like it seems like this would be an
Speaker:incredibly
Speaker:rich opportunity to do more than just send a magazine with, um, help.
Speaker:I've I've fallen.
Speaker:I can't get up ads and things like that.
Speaker:Uh, so the magazine, I assume is the biggest touch point.
Speaker:They do have
Speaker:a big digital media presence.
Speaker:It's obviously.
Speaker:totally foreign to the three of us,
Speaker:but the, the big, the way they monetize is, you know, they offer,
Speaker:uh, I think Medicare advantage to supplemental, uh, Medicare, they
Speaker:offer credit cards and insurance.
Speaker:And then I I've seen like a bunch of discounts, you know, like if
Speaker:you're a veteran, for example, well, if you're an AARP member,
Speaker:you get discounts on car rental or a flight or, or, or what have you.
Speaker:And so the way they're monetizing the audience is actually commercer.
Speaker:You know, real products.
Speaker:And so those products are commodity products, basically, right?
Speaker:You could get insurance from a million places.
Speaker:Why do you buy it from the AARP?
Speaker:It's because you have a brand affiliation and loyalty with them through the media.
Speaker:And then, you know, for AARP, the nice thing for them is
Speaker:they're kind of just a pass through.
Speaker:And so it's almost like an affiliate scheme, but it's not.
Speaker:It's more than that.
Speaker:They actually, you know, they, they, uh, control the brand of
Speaker:the credit card and all of that.
Speaker:And it's just a huge growing niche,
Speaker:Great.
Speaker:So it's, it's like, yeah, niche, but you know, retired people when hundreds
Speaker:of millions of people are getting to retirement age at the moment in very
Speaker:wealthy Western countries is like,
Speaker:stretching the definition of niche a little bit.
Speaker:so I, I think there's a ton of
Speaker:of power there.
Speaker:Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker:feel like every time we, we talk with
Speaker:you, we learn lots of interesting little tidbits and, uh, we
Speaker:got riches and niches today.
Speaker:Uh,
Speaker:gonna call that one out
Speaker:but we also got to witness the creation of the
Speaker:anti brand terrorist cell.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:GARP versus Antipora.
Speaker:Carbon Adibra, a battle for the ages.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So Ramiz, we really, really
Speaker:appreciate you joining us today.
Speaker:This has been such a pleasure
Speaker:as always.
Speaker:We love talking with you.
Speaker:for
Speaker:having me.
Speaker:I'll look forward to
Speaker:my, uh, Portland Pickles merchandise
Speaker:What are we, we thinking hat?
Speaker:We want a hat?
Speaker:We want a shirt?
Speaker:What are we looking for
Speaker:There's koozies.
Speaker:Of course there's
Speaker:koozies.
Speaker:Are there wristbands?
Speaker:There must be wristbands.
Speaker:There's even free tattoos on Tuesday.
Speaker:They have free tattoo Tuesday.
Speaker:You can get Dylan Pickle.
Speaker:Put wherever you want.
Speaker:So if you make it out here,
Speaker:we'll, we'll
Speaker:All right.
Speaker:I had no dough and pickle.
Speaker:That is the most Portland shit ever.
Speaker:Almost every time we have a conversation, I'm like, I have to say, that's the
Speaker:most Portland shit I've ever heard.
Speaker:We know how to do it.
Speaker:Well, on the, on
Speaker:the, on the prospect of Ramiz getting a
Speaker:Dylan Pickle.
Speaker:tattoo,
Speaker:we're going to wrap this up and thank Ramiz.
Speaker:Um, if you want to learn more about territorial and how we help brands
Speaker:find their place in the world,
Speaker:go to visit our website.
Speaker:It is, we are territorial.
Speaker:com.
Speaker:And follow us on
Speaker:LinkedIn.
Speaker:Look for this, uh, episode real soon.
Speaker:Thanks so much, guys, everybody.
Speaker:Take care.
Speaker:Bye.
Speaker:you all.
